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War is Costly.

The Cost of War

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Posted by: lordacro

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Original: 2/13/2007 6:30 PM
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Tuesday, February 13, 2007

 Okay, so you guys are obviously not literature fanatics. Haha. Here's something you might find interesting:

>

This gentleman has posted a youtube "proof" of the existence of a deity. Now you may be thinking, "oh, very good, you've countered the argument of some random loser on youtube, hooray for you." But what troubles me is that this is how many people have convinced themselves of a philosophical "need" for there to be an infinite power in the universe. I applaud the attempt to apply some logic to the existence argument, but it is deeply flawed.

His theory involves asking if it's possible for there to have been an infinite amount of time before now. The example he presents is that if he offers to give me a chocolate bar after an infinite amount of time has passed, would I ever be able to claim the bar? Therefore he concludes that an infinite amount of time could not have already passed.

The problem I have with this is the use of the word 'amount.' Is infinity an amount? Certainly not! In fact isn't it quite the opposite? Infinite is the lack of amount. It is the status of not being finite. Instead of being an amount, infinity is more of a condition, or an assumption. If I asked how many integers exist, you would assume that there is no end to the progression of integers (hence, infinite).

An infinite amount of time could not have already passed because infinite is not an amount. Amounts of time pass, like two minutes or three days. For an amount of time to pass, it must have a beginning and an end. Saying "three days passed" means absolutely nothing without context. Saying "an hour has passed since I took a bath" marks a definite beginning and end: the finish of my bath, and now. So to say "an infinite amount of time can pass" is absurd. There is no beginning, for one thing, and there is no amount for another.

What do you think?

 Posted 2/13/2007 6:30 PM - 30 Views - 8 eProps - 5 comments

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Visit godgone's Xanga Site!

Thanks for the pointer to this video. But it certainly was disappointing, not to mention arrogant.

It seems to me the logical flaw Shawn makes is comparing the referrent event (the offer of the chocolate bar) to a non-referrent event (all "time" up to the present). As you put it - what is the reference point from which to measure? Of course he would say "when god created the world". But that's something he plants in the discussion without basis, and then goes on to base his argument on it. I believe that's called circularity.

I like your point about 'infinite' being the absence of 'amount'.

Posted 2/14/2007 1:56 PM by godgone Xanga True Member - reply

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Honestly, I think that you put too much thought into this. Atheists and Christians try too hard to disprove each other. The way I see it in this case, the word infinite is an adjective being used to describe time. Infinite means (1)having no limits; without beginning or end,(2)very great, vast. I think he simply meant that so much time had passed before that it could not be measured. Infinity is the noun form which means (1)the quality of being infinite,(2)space, time, or number without beginning or end, (3)a very great number, extent, etc. (Websters) So, it could be used to describe time.

The number one problem here is that it takes a certain amount of faith no matter who you are to take a stand for evolution or God as the source for the origin of life. I think both sides will always find a flaw or a lack of concrete proof to satisfy the other. Faith (particularly its meaning "state of being loyal; allegiance")is probably the only common ground we share. One thing is for certain: this is one ongoing debate that will be resolved when we die. If atheists are right, we just die and don't exist anymore. If Christians are right we die and "wake up" in eternity - that is if Jesus doesn't come back first (
Posted 2/17/2007 5:20 PM by faithfullyhopingandpraying - reply

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It's alright FHAP, I deleted the extra comment.

Godgone - thanks, I am sort of a math nerd, and I enjoy the idea of infinity, different sizes of infinity, those sorts of things. That is why I posted this; it pertains to atheism and math.

FHAP - I definitely see your point. I was more concerned with the logic/math aspect of the argument than anything else. All the proof concerns is if time had a beginning or not. I agree that nobody will ever know what is correct unless there is some sort of afterlife. What troubles me is when somebody tries to 'prove' anything about these deep philosophical questions (whether I agree or not). People won't accept the fact that we can't know anything for sure. My atheism is the unwillingness to accept what, to me, seems illogical and improbable.

As for evolution, like I've said, it's more or less my guess as to the origin of the human being. I will never claim that I am 100% sure it's true.
Posted 2/17/2007 6:46 PM by lordacro - reply

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Hello Lord Acro,
I like your site that you worked hard to make simple yet elegant. I see that you don’t have much to say lately!
I like to write articles about God and religion on my site to help people to really get to know God, especially in these troubled times: 14 "When the good news about the kingdom has been preached all over the world and told to all nations, the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) (CEV (Luke 11:9-10) I hope you get a chance to look at them.

Posted 6/5/2007 7:42 PM by ThewordsofGod Xanga True Member - reply

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Hey im Tom, like the way you write. Come visit us and hear our music and get some ringtones. Xanga supported.
Posted 10/17/2007 3:38 PM by Plain__White__Ts - reply


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